John Lee Dumas – Interview with World Famous Entrepreneur – Season 1 Episode 10

The Dr. Chris Griffin Show – Season 1 Episode 10 (John Lee Dumas Interview)

“I was done living a life I woke up not excited about.”

Now who said that?

Welcome to the Dr. Chris Griffin Show. Your resource for leveraging systems and technology to easier workload, increase productivity and provide you with the time off you deserve to live the life of your dreams. It’s time to practice productivity in the passionate pursuit of a better life with your host, Dr. Chris Griffin. The Dr. is in.

Well everybody, it should be no big surprise but the quote of today comes from none other than our guest, John Lee Dumas. John Lee Dumas and let me just tell you guys a little bit about John. He’s going to be on the show with us in just a few moments. But John, is the foundering host of EOFire. Now EOFire is a big time podcast and now if you’re listening to this. I know you have found the world of podcasting, right? Podcasting has become gigantic, I mean gigantic. iTunes has made podcasting gigantic all across the world and  now podcasting straight which is not only into iTunes but also different venues like Stitcher radio and places like Soundcloud; places like that.

But John is such a profoundly amazing teacher. He’s the one that I sought out when I was trying to learn how to get into podcasting or doing shows in a podcasting format. The reason I sought him out is because I’d seen just an amazing rise in his show EOFire. EOFire should be considered probably a flagship for all entrepreneurs. The name is entrepreneurial, E entrepreneur on fire. But EOFire is sort of has a unique take so John when he was trying to say the niche he was trying to get into podcasting, he realized, “Hey, nobody out there is putting the work to produce 7 shows a week; 1 each day. Let me tell you guys, doing 1 a week is hard enough, right? Seven shows a week? Are you kidding me? It is amazing! The amount of work and passion this guy puts in to everything.

Plus if you will go and listen to his shows, and I recommend subscribing to EOFire. If you listen to his shows, he openly talks about his income streams and the amount of money he makes doing his show and it is amazing, I mean we’re talking very far north of what most dental practice in America make during the year, produced during the year. So John really knows what he’s talking about. He’s got a brilliant business mind and he really has gotten EOFire was number 1 in business and iTunes for a long time. Of course there’s always everyone and their dogs putting out in their podcast these days. And so it’s not always number 1 anymore but it’s huge. The listenership is gigantic, he has over 1 million monthly listens. He’s interviewed over 12 hundred entrepreneurs on his show.

Now this is the place to go if you want to get new ideas about things, right? And a lot of these ideas you can turn right around and just put them right into your dental practice especially anything related to the marketing or business principles. And truly he’s also got a very motivational aspect to the show. I just really like his show. And also we get into this a little bit in the interview, but I want to ask John about how it is working with his significant other. Kate Erickson is John’s long time girlfriend and she has her own show called Kate’s Take which is really just an audio blog of EOFire but she works hand in hand with John on his show also. And it’s just, since so many of us have our significant other working in our practices, I want to get into that and see just what John thinks about that, really. Okay? They could get really exciting and I hope I don’t put him too much on the spot right? I hope I don’t fries toast up from under him and Kate’s not listening and gets mad at him. Hopefully not, I’m sure not. I mean she seems like the sweetest person in the world.

So anyway, I’m really excited. This show has been months in the making trying to get him scheduled. This guy’s schedule is so tight, so tight. But he was gracious enough to fit me in. I guess maybe because he is my mentor in this podcasting world and he is an amazingly awesome guy to be a mentor for anything like this. So I really appreciate what he’s done for me and I appreciate John jumping on the show just like he’s about to do. Okay everybody, hold on to your seats, get your notebooks out, get ready to take some notes. The one, the only – John Lee Dumas.

John Lee: Alright, hey everybody.

Dr. Griffin: Just as promised, I have on the line tonight, John Lee Dumas. Now John, I’m not going to embarrass you by some, you know, amazingly flattering buy because trust me, I’ve already done in the lead up to this interview. But so folks this is the guy who’s been doing this amazing promo for me periodically on the show and it’s the guy that really got me into podcasting. He is really one of the reasons why I’m able to share my messages with you guys. So John, are you there tonight?

John Lee: I’m here, I’m ready to rock Dr. C. Let’s burn this place to the ground.

Dr. Griffin: Alright man, so let me this real quickly say. I’ve got some questions for you now. John, I did not give him the questions tonight, so like there’s no cheating. This is all just straight, straight off his brain right?

John Lee: Yeah and I am terrified about what you could have in store for me.

Dr. Griffin: Okay, well good. Now the first one is going to be a soft ball but after that, it just gets increasingly difficult, okay?

John Lee: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Griffin: Alright. So here’s the first question we got for you. Alright so John I think maybe you are best known in the entrepreneurial space for setting and achieving seemingly impossible goals, right? This is all evidenced by your powerful story and I think my audience which is made up primarily of dentists, they have trouble finding time. And I mean in their opinion, trouble finding the time to even set goals. Much less ever find a way to stay on path to achieving them. So in a few words, I would love it if you could just impart some wisdom along the lines that will help a busy professional find a way to set and achieve their goals.

John Lee: So this is the reality, is that most people don’t struggle finding the time to set goals. The struggle in actually setting the correct goals and this is where I really set out what the freedoms there are to fix that to teach people how to set smart goals. And that acronym Dr. C, for smart is Specific Measurable Attainable Relevant Time bound. So it’s important that people actually sit down and make sure that their goal is a specific goal. That it is measurable on some level. That it is attainable, I’m not saying you know, walk on the moon in a hundred days, that’s not attainable. Is it relevant to your life? Like is it something that’s really actually important to what you’re doing in your business, with your health, in your relationship. And is it time bound? Are you setting an end date? So you have an actual time bound if you’re dued on that. So it’s not a time thing, it’s an actual structure thing. Because once you have that in place, we’re talking 5 to 10 minutes of a day. You just start making significant progress to your big goal.

Dr. Griffin: You know, now that that acronym, you are the first one that I’ve heard that actually put that out there, I don’t know. Did you come up with that yourself? Or is it something that you gathered along the way?

John Lee: No I’ve seen that across many different platforms throughout the years and that’s something that I’ve always completely agreed with and resonated with. So I knew it would be part of a freedom journal.

Dr. Griffin: Yeah, that freedom journal. So folks if you don’t know what the freedom journal is, recently John had this project which I don’t…is it true your project is one of the biggest of all time on this thing called Kickstarter, right?

John Lee: Yes, Kickstarter’s a crowdfunding platform and the freedom journal is the number 6 most funded publishing campaign of all time on Kickstarter.

Dr. Griffin: I mean that is amazing. Now that sets up a later question I got for you but I just want everybody to realize as in I didn’t know what Kickstarter was until probably 6 months ago. So this is something that hasn’t really gotten big into the dental field. We don’t know a lot about it but trust me guys, it’s…crowdfunding is a big deal and the fact that is it top 10 of all time. That is, that is really saying something.

John Lee: Yes, let me cut it here for one second, I think that Kickstarter actually is a very interesting platform for dentists. I mean the reality is this, is like you guys are in the mix every single day. You know what works in your industry and you know what doesn’t. Like you know, like you must be saying like, Why does this run on electricity? And you know what, I always have these cords everywhere. You know, I’m making stuff up because I don’t know the dentistry world. But you know those huge, huge pain points in your industry. And what Kickstarter does is it allows you to prove the concept of an idea by, you just say, Hey, I don’t have the money to create this yet or I don’t want to take the time to create this until I get proof of concept. So you can put an idea there and say, Hey if I get like x number of dollars raise like say $250 raise then I’m going to go out and create this thing. But I know it will help every dentist and people who have done things like that has gone viral in the dentist community and people have risen a ton of money and then gone down and created a great product that really improved dentistry in general. Now that’s just an example but it’s thinking outside of the box which is really important.

Dr. Griffin: Oh, it really is. And it’s so much different about 15 to 20 years ago, one of my best friends and I, we came up with what we thought as a great idea for a product that would help with root canals right? So you look 20 to 25 thousand dollars later in lawyer fees and prototypes. And then we realized, you know what, there’s really no proof of concept so we scrap it. But Kickstarter kind of bypasses that, right?

John Lee: Yes, it really bypasses that and again, it really goes back to proof of concept.

Dr. Griffin: Okay, well hey I appreciate that because you certainly segwayed into another featured question. Well I’ll tell you what, why don’t you spend just a brief couple of minutes or whatever, sort of laying out your story because I don’t know that everyone is listening. After tonight, I hope everyone is a listener of also your podcast, EOFire. I’ll plug that all day long. But why don’t you give everybody kind of the lowdown on how you got to where you are right now.

John Lee: Absolutely. So you know for me, I’m just a country boy, Dr. Chris. That grew up on a small town in Maine. Well I spent the first 18 years of my life there and then decided to join army ROTC for college. So I spent 4 years as a cadet. Graduated and was commissioned as a second lieutenant back in May of 2002, which for everybody out there who remembers 9/11 will know that that made me the first class commissioned officer’s post of 9/11. So we knew that it was real deal holy field stuff. And sure enough, you know we were off and deployed to Iraq. Within 18 months of graduation, I did a 13 month tour of duty in Iraq as an armor patrol leader in charge of 4 tanks and 16 men. Right after the military, I experienced a lot of different careers and I failed in all of them. I tried law school, I hated it and quit. I tried commercial estates corporate finance, residential real estate, just none of these areas just really fit my needs. So I said, hey you know let’s just keep trying, let’s keep swinging the bat like what do I see as a void out there in this world. And I, becoming a big consumer of audio books and that got really expensive because audio books are not cheap. So it lead me to podcast which is free, valuable and on-demand content and I just fell in love with the medium immediately. I saw the value of it, I couldn’t understand why there wasn’t a seven day a week podcast because I was driving to work 5 days a week, going to the gym on the weekends. Like, I wanted to be consuming a interview with an inspiring entrepreneur every single day so that I can have my AHA moments since I decided to be that change that I wanted to see in the world to quote Ghandi there, and I launched EOFire September 2012 and here we are talking 13 hundred episodes later over 1.2 million listens per month. And it has been quite a ride.

Dr. Griffin: Yeah isn’t that something. I mean, it certainly is. I’ve actually followed you for, I don’t know, a little over a year and you know it’s been meteoric in the year that I followed you John. It’s really amazing.

John Lee: Absolutely, you know it’s honestly listeners like you Dr. Chris that will get that see the value in the episodes that I do that has grown in this large audience that I can then turn to and say, Hey fire nation, what are you struggling with? And then listen to their pain points, their obstacles, their challenges and then turn around and create a solution and you know, the most recent example is the Freedom Journal. But there’s been Podcaster’s Paradise, there’s been Webinar on Fire. So it’s really about delivering value consistently.

Dr. Griffin: You know it’s funny, you’ve got the on fire series but you know, back in 2009, I also did a series of seminars we called staff on fire; if you can believe that. And we’re trying to…we’re teaching dentists how to motivate their team to do bigger and better things. So if you ever see that website name, you know I’m not copying you, okay?

John Lee: (Laughs) Hey, we are all standing upon these shoulders of giants.

Dr. Griffin: Hey, you know you mentioned the Aha moments, I mean obviously your podcast is a great place to get those. I think a lot of not listenership, the dentists out there. I think that it’s just like almost like you spend so much of your energy going through professional school. And it’s like, “Okay, you know what? I’m just going to work now.” And no one really takes the time to look for those new things and get those Aha moments. I mean it ‘s hard to get a goal done if you don’t have the Aha moments to start with.

John Lee: Absolutely. 

Dr. Griffin: Well here’s…Okay. So here’s another question, John. So another area that in my opinion, you are one of the foremost authorities in the world is in building multiple and new streams of income. Okay? One thing that you do that I think is amazing and you probably didn’t invent this either but you’re the first that I saw do it. You have these income reports periodically on your podcast, right? And those things are just amazing. And if I would recommend my own listeners, I’d go if you’ve not yet subscribed to EOFire, Entrepreneur on Fire. Go ahead and subscribe to that and I would encourage you to do that and find those income reports where you…where John basically has laid out his inner workings of his business. He’s laid them bare for everybody to see and so. I mean this is really amazing. Now a lot, it’s a question I get a lot, a lot of my subscribers, they’re looking for new streams of income they can exploit. And some say, “Yeah hey Chris, I really want to do something else” but a lot of people say “I want to keep doing what I’m doing but I would love to find something new that I could get into” and find another stream of income where they don’t have to trade time for dollars. So what would you say to someone that sort of look in to get into some new stream of income or an additional source of income and succeed there?

John Lee: Well this going to sound a little prejudice but the reality is that they should listen to EOFire because that’s the point of my podcast. I mean every single day, seven days a week, I am bringing a different industry, a different niche, a different area of entrepreneur, who’s both successful and inspiring. And breaking down their journey, how they started, their biggest failure moment, you know the lessons they learned, their Aha moment that led them to success and of course, why they’re crushing it right now. So EOFire is a treasure tool for people that are saying, hey like “I think I’m going to expose myself to new ideas, to other entrepreneurs that are doing different things and maybe spark my own Aha moment.” And again with over 1.2 million listens per month, I mean we’re doing something right and we’re definitely sparking Aha moments across the world.

Dr. Griffin: It is and it’s crazy. I mean how exactly…at this point I suppose people search you out. But how in the world do you find content for 7 days a week? That amazes me.

John Lee: Yes, so the beautiful thing about my podcast is that it’s an interview based podcast. So I just line interviewees up and they’re successful and aspiring entrepreneurs. They definitely have to fit a criteria. They have to fill an application to pass the process and once they do, it’s amazing! And we love that aspect of it and we bring them on the show and they provide the value. So I’m just providing the platform, the processes and the systems. They provide the content and the value, 7 days a week.

Dr. Griffin: Okay, hey and you know, you mentioned in your story that you were an army ROTC. Now this is not really on topic of what we’re talking about today but I just got in my notes and I’ve got to mention it. Now you went to Providence College, right?

John Lee: Yes.

Dr. Griffin: So when I was in 8th grade, you may. I mean maybe you’re younger than I am, right? I’m 42, so you’re younger than I am but when I was in 8th grade, I was running around in my backyard and I was pretending to be Billy Donovan as the Providence Friars march towards the final four.

John Lee: Pitino baby! Yeah.

Dr. Griffin: Yes, yes.

John Lee: That’s one of the reasons why I went to Providence College because I am younger than you but I remember that march of the final four. I was actually 8 years old at that time when Billy Donovan and Rick Pitino led the Providence Friars to the final four and then you know again in ‘94, I remember them winning the biggest championship and then in ’97, they made a really improbable run to the elite 8 with Austin Croshere, God Shammgod and Eric Williams; that was my senior in college. And that is the reason I went to Providence College.

Dr. Griffin: Look at you, and so I had that feeling that you were a big fan. So here’s my question.

John Lee: Hey, Dr. Chris. Just last week I got back from New York City, where I was at Madison Square Garden for the biggest basketball tournament.

Dr. Griffin: Okay, well here’s okay. So you and I, we run the same last…so last weekend, my father and I and also a couple of my dental school friends just got back from the SEC Tournament in Nashville and it was our 20th year in a row to go to that. And you know, I just love college basketball and here’s my question for you. Do you have a pick, because this is being recorded on the week before the opening rounds? So I promise you guys have got USC first round, right?

John Lee: Yeah, what a nice team.

Dr. Griffin: Okay so now this will be published about probably sweet 16 week ends. So what is your prediction for the Friars?

John Lee: Well I think the Friars are actually going to shock some people. Like I’m very prejudice but I think we’re going to handle USC very easily. We’re going to beat the number 1 seed, UNC, the Tarheels, which by the way, we almost did 2 years ago which would have been amazing. We were actually up by a couple of points with a couple of minutes left but they came back and beat us in round 2. And then think we’re going to run into trouble as the bracket gets really tough on our side and to be honest, Providence is a 2-man show. Those two men are amazing but we don’t have a really huge supportive cast. I really think that Bellanova and Xavier are going to be amazing within the big East, they’re going to go deep. They’re both 2 seeds and I think they’re going to both make the sweet 16 and at least one of them will make the elite 8 and I think one of them will make the final 4 as well. But I think that Oregon has it this year.

Dr. Griffin: Wow, okay. Oregon. I mean this is, this is recorded for all to hear. So if you’re right, people are going to ESPN. They’re going to…they might start to give you a little on the Joe bracket show, you might have a little segment every year if this works out.

John Lee: I Love it. I love it. I think that’s yes, a great experience.

Dr. Griffin: Okay, so okay here’s the third question. Now this is not a softball. Okay? So let’s see how you get this one. In my profession, a lot of dentists like their own practice, right? Some really cottage kind of industry. It’s not yet corporate even though it’s getting more corporate, it’s not corporate yet. And so a lot of dentists have their significant other, their spouse, working in their office. Some as a hygienist, some as an office worker; many as office workers. And I know from listening to your podcast that your significant other, Kate, she has got an amazing business that kind of runs parallel with your business and you guys work together quite a bit. So I thought you would be a great person to ask, how it is sort of fitting your significant other in with your business ventures.

John Lee: It is a really important aspect that makes our relationship work both business and in life. And that’s that we really bring different things to the table that are really important to the business, you know. Kate’s the systems and the processes and the details and the organization; like I’m the ideas, and the execution, and the personality and the voice. So we really work well because of those reasons. And I think that that’s really important when you’re going into a partnership with a significant other is really having clearly defined roles. So from day 1, you know, I launched EOFire by myself and was running it by myself for the first 6 months and when I finally convinced Kate to come on board, it was because I was able to clearly define her role within EOFire because that was something she was worried about. That she wouldn’t have a defined role. So I think that is a really tough question to answer but it’s really important to realize that Hey, know your roles and know your place. Hopefully you’re bringing different things of value to the table. If not, you better hire quick, people that will bring value to that table.  

Dr. Griffin: That’s pretty good. You know, I didn’t know if you’ve ever been asked that question before. So I wasn’t sure, I thought I was maybe been a little bit mean to you by asking but you answered it very gracefully.

John Lee: I don’t think you have a mean bone in your body, Dr. Chris.

Dr. Griffin: Well I don’t know. Ask my team members and you know, we’ll see.

John Lee: Actually, who’s your team in the SEC, is it Tennessee?

Dr. Griffin: Well actually, I have a degree from Tennessee. I do, but in my undergrad I went to Mississippi State. And so my first year of dental school, they did their run to the final four and so I was hooked forever and you know, they’re not in the tournament this year. We did however, you know I don’t out in your neck of the woods we got UCLA’s old coach. We’ve got really high hopes for the future. But you know, we’re right now we’re just sort of taking it easy watching the games.

John Lee: How was the last 10 years for you, for Mississippi State?

Dr. Griffin: Well that was a really awesome period in the early 2000’s and the past 5 years has been really, really slim picking. So we’re hungry, man. We’re hungry.

John Lee: You will get back.

Dr. Griffin: Yes. Alright so you…How long were you in Law School, John?

John Lee: One semester and it was the worst 6 months of my life.

Dr. Griffin: Okay. Alright, so I hear this question a lot. So because you got out early before, let’s say that you, let’s say that you were in a career…you graduated your professionals like in my profession, you’re a dentist. Now you’ve gotten out. Unfortunately student loans are really high than they’ve ever been. And let’s say that you may own a quarter of a million dollars and you know that you have got to have a very successful presence in the business world here. As a dentist and maybe doing even something else to really get your feet back on the ground and financially become stable again. I know you’re big on financial stability. So what would be a few of the steps you would take to try to make sure that you could get some of these debts paid down while at the same time, trying to pursue your dreams and passions?

John Lee: Well listen, at that point where you’re a quarter of a million in debt, I mean you’re under a mountain of hurt. And if you’re not super passionate about the reason you got under that amount of hurt then you’re even under a bigger amount of hurt. So I would just say this, it’s like, at that point like you just got to suck it up and say, Hey I’m going to do what needs to be done during the day to get a legitimately, you know, paying job as a dentist or as a lawyer. So I just start paying down these loans and you know, I’m going to live booze wrap it every spare of penny I can get it’s going to go paying down these loans as quick as possible. And I’m going to start my side hustle a lot. You know, I’m going to start my side hustle at 7 pm to midnight. And I’m just going to get it going. I’m going to try to have it to a point that you know, where my debt gets pretty much paid down and potentially even paid off. Then I can just transition from my side hustle and make that my full time hustle. Because I’ve been putting in the hours going for it because it takes a long time to monetize a business. As an entrepreneur, it took me 9 months before I brought a penny in. And if you’re $250,000 in debt, you don’t have that kind of time, so you got to bring it into a side hustle. That’s just a reality.

Dr. Griffin: Yeah, it’s funny. When I started. I really…when I went to start this side company, Effective Dentistry. It’s sort of my teaching company for dentists. I mean one of the first things I did was I made every effort in the world to get completely out of debt because then I knew that you know, the time that I was taken away from the dental practice really wouldn’t affect my family and I could pursue it. But yeah, you’re right and as time goes on, it takes awhile. Once you get rolling, it’s really good. Like now, we just work 3 days a week at the practice and I can devote a couple of days a week to this what you called a side hustle. But you know, in the beginning, you’re right. You’re looking at some night times and some weekends where you maybe miss a ball game or two. But you know, ultimately, it will pay off if you’re passionate about it. But that’s just a question I get a lot because I do feel bad for the young professionals out there who are so far in debt these days.

John Lee: Yeah, I really think that you got to focus on your mountain of debt first.

Dr. Griffin: Okay, so hey man. We’re really close to the end of your gracious time allotment with me tonight. So hey, if you’ve got a few parting words of wisdom for everybody out there. They’ve heard you for the last couple of months. They’ve heard you because you did what you did the intro for me; a couple of months ago. So they’ve heard you and I’ve periodically promote you and bragged on you and everything. So just a few parting words to everybody out there just to keep everybody motivated and head in the right direction.

John Lee: So the reality is this, I mean if you’re listening to my voice, you’re hearing a guy that sounds like he has some experience around microphones because I do. But it didn’t start out that way. I was a bad podcaster before I ever became a good podcaster; just like you don’t wake up an amazing dentist. Like it takes time, it takes work, it takes studying, it takes effort, it takes repetition. And that’s everything in life. So if there’s one quote that I would love to leave your listeners with, it’s “If you want to be, do.” Like if you want to be a great dentist, just do dentistry. If you want to be a podcaster, then you have to do podcast. If you want to be a writer, you have to write every single day. You have to do that thing. So it’s a simple quote but it’s such an important Mantra. “If you want to be, do”.

Dr. Griffin: Well John, man. You have given more value tonight, I think than I’d probably given the last two months. So once again, thank you so much for being on with us and so the last thing I could say to you, go Friars! We’ll see how it goes.

John Lee: Go PC!

Dr. Griffin: Alright everybody that was John Lee Dumas. Thanks John, you have an awesome rest of the week and hopefully, we’ll talk to you again sometime.

John Lee: Thanks Dr. C!

Dr. Griffin: Alright, we’ll see you, man.

John Lee: Great talking.

Dr. Griffin: So that was him. That was the interview we’ve been waiting so long to do. Hopefully I was a good reporter. I had 3 questions I wanted to ask at the beginning of the interview. And we covered those and then the rest of the time was kind of just off the cuff. And we’ll see how his Providence Friars do in the Tournament. And I will be filling out…I’m actually about to fill out my brackets as we speak and as we get off of this podcast. So everybody, thanks for showing up this week. I hope you enjoyed and took as much away from this than I did and I will see you next time.

We appreciate you joining us for this episode of the Dr. Chris Griffin Show. Be sure to visit drchrisgriffin.com for the latest resources and updates to keep you more productive every single day you’re at the practice. So when you’re not working, you can do the things that matter most in life. We look forward to having you join us in another episode of the Chris Griffin Show; where the doctor is always in.